Acute and chronic prostatitis discussion. Arnon Krongrad, MD, moderator.
Hi everyone! I'll start with a brief introduction to my case, before the part on antibiotic injections which I do believe interest alot of people.
I am a 24 year old male from Sweden, and I got my first prostate infection at about 21. Realizing afterwards that I've had it for a while, I started to seek medical care once the symtoms started to get unbearable, but Swedish healthcare is extremly restrictive with antibiotics and I was denied it for months despite several visits to different doctors, and an extremly symptomatic situation. At last, almost begging on my knees, I got two weeks of cipro, and bought another 4 weeks of cipro on the black market (..).
This cleared my infection up and restored me 100% - with one exception. I seem to always get re-infected when having unprotected sex, with otherwise non-pathogenic bacteria naturally found in the vagina, as do many prostatitis patients. I cleared up another infection a year later with 10 days of antibiotics, luckily - but another year later, never failing with antibiotics - I took several too short courses with ciprofloxacine and doxycykline, making the bacteria resistant to various levels to those two precious prostatitis agents.
I tried many other antibiotics on the market, and responded to all of them targeting gram-negatives, but nothing eradicated the infection completely, probably because the infection also had spread and severly affected my right seminal vesicle. Despite living in the capital of Stockholm, there is no medical attention to prostatitis at all, and all of the 10-15 doctors I visited, including a few urologists, kept sending me home claiming I did not have an infection as "antibiotics didn't help", also telling me I should "go home and learn to live with it".
A year later of failed oral antibiotics (mostly bought on the black market) even when overdosing and combining them, I decided upon going to Italy for injections, and let me start by saying this;
Injections DO work. It is a valid treatment option for bacterial prostatitis, and should probably be done in all severe, treatment-resistent cases, before the bacteria causes irreversible damage or fails to respond even to injections.
Wheter massage or injection protocols, there seems to be massive critic to these methods, as they don't cure everyone (in opposite to what other prostatitis treatment?). People seem to say that it either "does work" or "doesn't work", but there is probably a big gray zone inbetween where many patients including myself are.
I underwent a prodecure of three injections with 10 days inbetween. At my first visit, no bacterial testing had been done but the doctor claimed I had chlamydia judging by the pattern of my calcifications. I know for sure, 100% that my infection is not chlamydial and started dropping many strong arguments for it, but the doctor wouldn't listen and still gave me an injection with the old chlamydia-agent rifampicin, with a little mix of cipro (resistance!) into it.
I got slow response and started to relapse at about day 6-7. At my second visit, the PCR-tests for chlamydia was negative (no cultures on gram- was done!), but the doctor would still want to use rifampicin. However, it was out of stock and I got amikacin + cipro instead. This improved me GREATLY, the result was INSTANT and my symptomps were 95% down for a full 7 days, until I once again started to relapse from my right seminal vesicle.
At my last visit, I suggested that we continue the treatment with a forth injection after 6 days instead, with the same antibiotics, but I was denied this. The rifampicin was in stock again and he used it, despite the poor results. I have no explanation for this behavior, other than that the antibiotic is old, out of demand and probably extremly cheap. Needless to say, the results from the third injection were once again poor and I relapsed. Also, unlike the first two injections - the third was painful and today, a week later, I still have pain from it.
So, statistically - I am one of those who were not helped by the injections, I only got worse from them. Does this mean that they don't work? Doe's it mean that I have non-bacterial prostatitis? That it is treatment resistent and that I should stop pursuing the antibiotic way?
No. It means that the protocol was performed poorly. The injections have great potential but needs to have some adjustment. First of all, 10 days inbetween is too much. Secondly, my case shows the importance of choosing correct antibiotics even at these concentrations. Thirdly, I couldn't help noticing the needle is awfully thick. This probably allows for a quick injection, but could cause damage. The Chinese claim to have longer and much thinner needles for this reason, and it might be true as their injections lasts for 1-2 minutes while those are done in ~15 seconds including both seminal vesicles.
The temporary relief but fast relapsing we hear about could maybe be attributed to failure of the doctor rather than the method itself, or patients ejakulating the treatment out too close to the injection. Relapsing in months or years could depend on sexual contact, and not treatment failure.
I do believe this method works, but that sometimes questionable results are a result from poor performance of the treatment. My recommendation to chronic sufferers thinking about undergoing the procedure, is to go on with it, but not in Italy. I hope my experience and thoughts provide helpful to someone out there, as there is little information on the internet on this from a patients perspective.
What is the name of that stuff-EDTA,in pharmacy.My urologists didnt hear of such a thing(no surprise to me),as they proven of being not much of use for dealing with CP.
regarding the suppositories
are you supposed to use an antibiotic adjacent to them or do they safely work alone in dissolving the calcifications?
where are those suppositories produced?? in the US?? or somewhere else??
they seem a bit expensive but i guess its something that someone may try to see what it does, since theres not much left apart from removal of the gland
i ve pretty much tried every treatment in the book
They do work alone in dissolving calcifications - however, if your calculi situation is a result of an infection, new stones might form at the same pace as the EDTA removes them. In a true bacterial prostatitis, a strong antibiotic should be administred along the EDTA, as it is a complement to the EDTA rather than opposite. All three studies done on EDTA in prostatitis were conducted with an use of antibiotics.
As for myself, I've been on and off it for a few months now, with the use of trimethoprim. It is the only antibiotic that still works for me and its probably the weakest one available for this disease. However, I am now more or less symptom free, but I dont know how much the suppositories did for me. Daily prostate massage probably helped even more. EDTA treatment is a slow process and the prostate should be helped to drain itself, until it's able to do so on its own again.
They might appear expensive but they are 60% cheaper than the only other magnesium-based suppository on the market. I used those before, but because of the price and my familys background in biochemistry, I figured we could produce them ourselves, and even enhance the product. As I was asked to provide other sufferers I've been in touch with, I decided to launch the product on the open market. They are made and distributed within Europe.
Currently, we are researching the possibility of adding allicin to the suppository. While it has a documented effect in prostatitis, the bioavailbility appears to be close to non-existent once administred with the oral route. We believe the breakdown of this organic compound can be avoided to a great extent with rectal delivery.
Goran - you've decided to launch the pharmaceutical product!? and now you're selling/advertising it here? It's great you're improving on your 'home remedy' prepared by your biotech family but you're on a serious forum and this type of posting should not take place here. When I look at your 'prostaklar. com' website - it reminds me of time when I worked for PayPal and there was a team shutting down websites like yours.
I strongly recommend taking your 'product' website down, or get some legal advice if you're unable to make a clear conclusion yourself or with help from your biotech family.
Goran - FYI just in case you're unable to make a fair judgment, I am reporting your eshop/website to PayPal for their review. It's not meeting any requirements for the business, you're violating all the ecommerce rules.
Sure. Are you reporting just us or any other of the hundred or so small-business EDTA providers around the globe?
I can't see why anyone would object to the launch of an enhanced product of this kind, for half the price, but feel free to spend your time in whichever way you want.
I'd report any scam advertised on this forum, especially when the pattern is clear. You gave me no choice. I just cannot read your 'business oriented' posts, lad not to mention your 'web&eshop'. You call yourself 'we / us' wherever you can. Oh and thank you for your permission regarding my free time.
Goran, can I talk to you about this?