Pathology report

[Antonio E. Feliciano,Jr.MD]

Hi Dr. Krongrad,
Thanks for the update on your work. Would you be able to provide us information on the Pathology Report of your patients? This may provide valuable infornation on the disease process and help researchers in the understanding of the pathophysiology of Prostatitis.
Once again thank you very much
Regards
AEF

[Arnon Krongrad, MD]

Mike, let us distinguish theory, feelings, and data.

The question is: "Can you please provide us with data about the protocol you describe? A published reference?"

It is quite possible that the symptoms we call "prostatitis" can be explained by many factors. In this sense, then, there is nothing mutually exclusive in pelvic relaxation and prostatectomy. Both can theoretically be effective remedies for these symptoms. The degree of overlap between the two putative populations -- those that respond to one and those that respond to the other -- is unknown but maybe to some extent there may be a population that could benefit from either.

The link provides one abstract relevant to the relief of symptoms. 72% of the 138 men had partial or complete response. The index used is not the CPSI so I am not sure how apples to apples this is. I also cannot tell how many had "partial" and how many had "complete" responses.

What happens to the nearly 30% who fail?

[Mark]

It seems like a sponsored website you would find on Google. I would not trust any website that tries to sell me a book or anything on their homepage.

[Nik]

Even if this therapy helps, it is unlikely to be permanent. It is ongoing and expensive, and not readily available to most men on the planet to make regular trips at great expense. At least with surgery it is a one off treatment, once its paid its done and one can get on with his life without travelling the world any more looking for relief.

[mike]

I totally agree! Hopefully surgery will prove to be the end all be all cure. So far it’s looking promising. It also seems easy for the Stanford team to pull numbers out of thin air. If you read the site I linked up, They claim 95 percent of prostatitis is not caused by the prostate.. That really seems like a made up figure. It’s very suspicious in my view. This is why I like what Dr Krongrad is doing. So far the cured have posted on the forum with there pictures. And of course hopefully in the end the study will be published. I think Krondrad is doing everything the right way, which is refreshing.

[Nik]

Perhaps when the trial is done and hopefully proves what we have seen so far, but in higher numbers, more urologists around the world will take prostatitis more seriously when they know it is curable. Perhaps prostatitis will come out of "the waste-basket of clinical ignorance" at last.
All this pelvic floor treatment therapy is doing, is confusing a lot of people & interfering with making a positive decision which could cure them.With the economic climate going into world depression and mass job losses, the last thing we need is continuing expensive treatment that never cures us.

[Arnon Krongrad, MD]

That was one of the points of A Hole in The Fence.

Why do you say pelvic floor treatment is expensive? It would seem to be cheap compared with surgery, no?

We are opening a new option for cost containment. Beginning in just a few weeks we are beginning to operate in Trinidad, where the cost basis is much lower than in the US. If you want to understand the concept you can browse through Mobile Surgery International. I'd be curious to know your reaction to the concept.

[mike]

Why do you say pelvic floor treatment is expensive? It would seem to be cheap compared with surgery, no?



1 week at Stanford can run 7k for a week. A good pt can run 250 to 300 dollars a hours 2 to 4 sessions a week. Some men need years of pt or even life long because it really doesn’t work. I know of men who have done 8 to 10 years of pt 3 times a week at 200 dollars a session. It adds up. Also, insurance doesn’t like to cover it. The long term cost of pt is way more then surgery. Especially if insurance pays a big chunk of thge surgery.

Prostatitis suffers are sick of scam pointless treatments. I know for myself i have spent at least 20 k in bogus treatments over the years for my prostatitis. That’s not including herbs and special diets which cost a ton too.

We are opening a new option for cost containment. Beginning in just a few weeks we are beginning to operate in Trinidad, where the cost basis is much lower than in the US. If you want to understand the concept you can browse through Mobile Surgery International. I'd be curious to know your reaction to the concept.


Thats great!

[Nik]

Mobile surgery international is a great idea.It would also help the costs for the patient by staying in a cheaper country during the initial recovery period before travelling home. As long as you have all your favourite tools & equipment with you Dr Krongrad (joke)...!!!

[Mark]

Yeah I just want to make sure Krongrad uses his favorite hammer and screwdriver :D

[Christof]

Although I am a firm believer in trigger points and muscle/nerve impingement as being culrpits in many problems people have with chronic pain, I think they are pushing the quackery envelope when trying to convince everyone that prostatitis is not prevalent and that THEIR system (and expensive it is) can take care of everyones "prostatitis".... If they are correct, how did my muscle/nerve pain associated with lumbar injury suddenly go from tolerable and livable, to making me into a 20 lb lighter, unable to work, play, relax, etc., with no "triggering" event such as increased stress, re-injury of my back, etc?
Doesnt make sense to me....
mike said:

Hi Doc,
Well i think there theory is that the prostate has little to do with prostatitis. They feel that the pelvic floor and the surrounding nerves cause the problems. I never understood how the pelvic floor can cause fevers and bloody urine. In the prosatitis world there seem to be two theory’s that have been at war with each other for years. The pelvic floor vs. the prostate.

As far as the Stanford protocol. There treatment is basically relaxation, yoga and having a trained pelvic floor pt give daily internal and external massages. Apparently they feel that tight pelvic floor muscles cause prostatitis symptoms. They think the prostate is not involved in a nutshell..It seem like rubbish to me. Yet some men get some relief. My guess is the massage helps relax some inflamed nerves. The treatment is http://www.pelvicpainhelp.com/ all info can be found on there site. The book headache in the pelvis is very popular in the prostatitis world. The book focuses on lifestyle changes, massages, yoga, and diet mods to cure the illness. Only problem is it doesnt really work in the real world. What are your thoughts on the link i posted? It seems your study so far is contradicting what these top prostatitis guys are saying.

[Christof]

Exactly! And just like the use of something like a "Tens Unit", which uses the gate-blocking pain theory to reduce or eliminate pain while being used, it does NOT alleviate the cause of the pain, it simply blocks the transmission of the pain signal until your body has healed to the point where pain is no longer present... Pelvic floor exercises, yoga/meditation, "barking at the moon", may all temporarily relieve your symptoms, but they will not cure the cause, the inflamed prostate, unless the inflamed prostate is directly linked to a pinched nerve in the first place... That may be the case in a few of their patients, but those with true prostatitis will probably have to go to them forever to maintain some kind of relief in symptoms, and in the end, isnt that what all too many in the health field want? To treat the symptoms and "manage" the illness, rather than cure it:?
They make much more money that way..... And we all know how expensive it is to live in California.. ;-)

Nik said:

Even if this therapy helps, it is unlikely to be permanent. It is ongoing and expensive, and not readily available to most men on the planet to make regular trips at great expense. At least with surgery it is a one off treatment, once its paid its done and one can get on with his life without travelling the world any more looking for relief.

[mauricio chenlo]

great, at this point I will seriously consider surgery if I could afford it!

Arnon Krongrad, MD said:

That was one of the points of A Hole in The Fence.

Why do you say pelvic floor treatment is expensive? It would seem to be cheap compared with surgery, no?

We are opening a new option for cost containment. Beginning in just a few weeks we are beginning to operate in Trinidad, where the cost basis is much lower than in the US. If you want to understand the concept you can browse through Mobile Surgery International. I'd be curious to know your reaction to the concept.